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Re: Tesla Coil toroid Size
At 07:59 PM 9/8/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Original Poster: "Barton B. Anderson" <mopar-at-uswest-dot-net>
>
><SNIP>
>
>> Original Poster: "John H. Couture" <couturejh-at-worldnet.att-dot-net>
>>
>> Bart -
>>
>> The ionization (Spark effect) and length of the spark path in air is
>> dependent on the potential (voltage).
>
>John,
>The equations Vs = Vpsqrt(Cp/Cs) and Vs = sprt(2J/Cs)
------------------
Note that Vp is a potential. The Cp/Cs is only a ratio that multiplies the
potential. Potential can exist in air without a conductive path but current
cannot until the potential creates the path.
The second equation with Joules indicates the energy that is available to
charge the capacitor Cs to a voltage Vs. This is a different potential than
the one relative to the spark length.
--------------------
>disagree. There is something
>else driving spark length. When I was referring to
>current as the driving factor,
>I should have been clearer in my concept. Current,
>power, potential, transference,
>etc.. all play a role driving the longer arcs.
-------------------
I agree that once the conductive path is created by the potential many
other variables come into play.
-------------------
>We do know from emperical data that as Ctop increases,
>spark length at least has
>the potential to increase, and does in many cases. The
>relationship where a
>toroids size corresponds to spark length is probably not
>possible without a lot of
>variables considered. Consider the singular spark
>channel vs. multiple spark
>channels. This seems to be a major difference between
>long or short sparks. Toroid
------------------
I believe the long or short sparks depend on the potential available.
Obviously the potential is varying with typical TC operation. This is why I
recommend controlled sparks. This pins down the potential and the spark
length and greatly simplifies analysis.
---------------------- snip
>Spark length seems dependent on the toroids capacity,
>the TC to drive it, and the
>relationships of singular spark channels to form, grow,
>etc... I don't think size
>alone can account for the latter. The Vs equations and
>what occurs dictate that Vs
>alone is not the complete driving factor and I can only
-------------------
I believe that initiating a spark and the driving factor for the spark are
two different aspects of spark formation. Initiating a spark requires
potential. The physicist will understand that electrical potential is a
work function. I agree that the driving factor involves many other variables.
--------------------
>guess at the other
>variables involved. It would be fantastic to design to
>this accuracy, but this is
>probably where experience (tried and true) does best. Vs
>affects with Ctop is
>definately a major area needing explanation. Good
>question! Terry Fritz antenna
>array measurement techniques might be a valuable tool to
>identify if Vs follows
>the equation (I'd guess under the same power and energy
>applied - it does.).
>
>Bart
-----------------------
The spark represents energy. When the spark lenghtens it could mean a gain
in energy. As a TC cannot magnify energy as with power the extra energy
must show up in some other manner. There are only two ways the energy
increase at the output spark terminal can show up in a TC, either as input
watts or as an increase in efficiency.
I have never heard of a coiler who has checked for an increase in input
watts when he increased the toroid size and the spark length increased. The
increase in input watts should be easily detected. An increase in
efficiency when the toroid is increased in size would not be easy to
determine.
Bart, I agree more research is required. Did someone say they understood
how a Tesla coil works?
John Couture