RE: T&R Electric - No More...

["Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>]

Original poster: "bob by way of Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <yubba-at-clara-dot-net>

hi all,
Totally agree with terry on this one. If i drop  the nice  big 
filter  terry so kindly gave me on my toe can i have the nice scope? Be 
hard to prove  he gave it to me without a  invoice:-)). there are other 
ways of getting high power apart from  pole pigs. One could even make ones 
own transformer which would be a  worthwhile learning experience in itself. 
I recently fried my radar transformer . Instead of cursing my first thought 
was serves me right for not setting the safety gaps up properly closely 
followed by, great now i can try  the 4 pack MOT design. There are always 
ways,half the fun for me is finding the bits anyway. cant see the point of 
buying everything new and  bolting it all together, My idea of a hobby is 
that it is a learning experience to be  executed in ones own time at ones 
own pace.  without some  parasitic  paper pushing  opportunist 
scumbag  trying to extract money out of me in exchange  for looking after 
my best interests. I am quite capable of doing that myself thank you. When 
i get to old to do that i probably wont care anymore anyway. end of  rant 
about lawyers.

bob golding

50 01/08/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>Original poster: "Terry Fritz" <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>
>
>Hi,
>
>But Ralph...  If the MOVs are smoking, they are working just fine 
>;-)))  When your NST blows, is when you want to blame me :D  Of course, if 
>you do things right, the MOVs will not smoke either...
>
>The signal generator is real nice!!  It is worth almost enough money to 
>cover your attorney's retainer :o)))  Probably best to spend the money on 
>a generator for yourself.  Then in a few years, you would still having 
>something to show for it :D
>
>Before this thread deteriorates to the point of needing to be trashed...
>
>If indeed someone was hurt playing with a pole transformer in their 
>garage.  I hope their injuries were not serious or worse :-((   Of course, 
>legal recourse would depend on many many things such as the extent of the 
>injuries.  Did they break a toe moving it, or were they killed...  Then 
>there is the liability question.  If the transformer was blatantly 
>defective and they deliberately sold him "the bad one" knowing full well 
>it was dangerous, or if the transformer performed perfectly as designed 
>and delivered powered correctly to the "load"...
>
>There are many "stories", "exaggerations", and "tales" about 
>lawsuits...  But the Devil is in the details...  People (impartial) that 
>"actually" sit in the court room and listen to the "full story" are 
>usually pretty satisfied that justice was done.  The "press" likes to blow 
>things out of proportion to sell wood pulp.  Now with the Internet, we can 
>obtain such "news" for what it's actual value is...
>
>http://www.lectlaw-dot-com/files/cur78.htm
>
>The IBM/SCO case is another that IBM, at least, is giving the press all 
>the information they need to know (none)...
>
>T&R was a great supplier of equipment to us and we should be happy that 
>they supplied transformers for as long as they could.  Vendors come and 
>go...  IF CP still sold capacitors, they would no longer have much 
>business from us anyway.  I remember the "panic" when the law changed 
>requiring NSTs to have built in ground fault protection.  In the end, 
>there was no need to panic but only laughing ;-))  Apparently, you can run 
>coils with the protection intact if you don't want to spend the 10 minutes 
>it takes to defeat it...  And, if you grab the HV circuit the wrong way, 
>that darn ground fault circuit just might save your life!!
>
>Model rocketry got a shock when the commercial rocket engines were thought 
>to be impossible to get due to terrorist concerns.  Of course, making 
>rocket engines yourself is not "rocket science" as many are 
>finding...  The world was probably better off before...  Now instead of 
>have a few commercial sources for rocket engines, we had hundreds of 
>amateurs checking out how they can do it themselves (wildly dangerous but 
>not "hard")...  Of course, it was all "hype" since you can get engines 
>just the same as you always could...  Just have to ship them by ground 
>transportation which is probably a real good idea anyway...
>
>Another face value bit of hilarity was when the FBI wanted to 
>restrict/trace "agar" used to grow germs in the laboratory...  Any budding 
>bio-engineer above the age of eight could figure out about 100 substitutes 
>on the way to the super market.  And they did just to save cost and the 
>hassle of ordering it anyway...  All it took was a reason to innovate...
>
>So let's not panic just yet...  If we could not get pole pigs tomorrow, we 
>would probably think of something far far better the day after...  Loosing 
>a supplier of a part is just fuel for innovation ;-))  I have seen a 
>number of vendors "stop" supplying something only to return later after 
>changing their mind.  We simply tell them - Sorry, "you" were designed 
>"out"...  So far, it seems we have plenty of pole transformers floating 
>around...  Often, all it takes to get a big transformer is asking around, 
>a truck, and a few strong friends...
>
>While we may need more than "sticks, a few rocks, and a squirrel" to build 
>a Tesla coil, we don't "need" transformers from T&R.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>         Terry
>
>
>At 10:26 AM 8/1/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>Oh Captain, my Captain,
>>
>>Amen to the Commodore. In a culture that has become ethically
>>challenged,
>>the next time the MOVs on my NST filter smoke up my basement, I'm gonna
>>sue
>>Terry out of his random signal generator.  There can be no freedom
>>without taking
>>the responsibility for the consequences of one's own actions.  OSHA and
>>the nanny state is watching. For coilers and others who like to play
>>with dangerous toys, the situational ethics of suing the deep pockets
>>will lead to licensing and the end our access to our dangerous toys.
>>
>>Ralph Zekelman
>>High Speed Tube Duster,
>>US SigC, ret.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:41 PM
>>To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
>>Subject: RE: T&R Electric - No More...
>>
>>Original poster: "Dave Kyle by way of Terry Fritz <teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>"
>><dave-at-kyleusa-dot-com>
>>
>>Captain,
>>
>>I can't let your statement slide by. You are 100% wrong to say it is
>>society's fault. Every lawsuit is the result of an individual's decision
>>to
>>sue. Medical costs are immaterial to this augment. This is all about
>>personal responsibility and knowing right from wrong. There is simply no
>>excuse for ethically challenged behavior.
>>
>>I have stood in those shoes and I have had to make that decision. It was
>>not
>>so tough; I needed only to follow my conscience.
>>
>>The Commodore
>>
>>=========================================
>>Dave Kyle
>>Austin, TX USA
>>Email: dave-at-kyleusa-dot-com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:45 PM
>>To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com
>>Subject: RE: T&R Electric - No More...
>>
>>Original poster: "Mccauley, Daniel H by way of Terry Fritz
>><teslalist-at-qwest-dot-net>" <daniel.h.mccauley-at-lmco-dot-com>
>>
>>
>>Jeff,
>>
>>You really can't place all the blame on these individuals.  Its the
>>nature of the society we are growing up in.
>>Liability this, liability that, and the ease of seemingly "free" money
>>by those vultures (lawyers)  Chances are, some
>>person got seriously hurt using this equipment and his/her medical
>>insurance didn't cover the costs.  Again, the nature of
>>medical insurance in this country.  After visiting a lawyer, a lawsuit
>>may have been placed on the vendor to cover medical costs and any other
>>lawsuits the *lawyer* saw fit and voila.
>>
>>I know it is really disapointing to see this happening, but with today's
>>society and dwindling health benefits you *really*
>>can't put all the blame on the individual.  You have to put yourself
>>into that person's shoes before making any harsh judgements. Of course,
>>I have no idea what the actual circumstances are, but consider the
>>following before making judgements on others.  What if you yourself had
>>both your arms blown off by a high voltage accident and only 50% of your
>>medical coverage was covered. Suppose that 50% was $50,000 after
>>numerous operations etc...
>>
>>I know we all tend to act and be honorable when it comes to taking
>>responsibility for our own actions, but until one actually experiences
>>something terrible (i.e. bad medical mishap etc...), you really can't
>>preach how you would act under those
>>circumstances.
>>
>>Of course again, I have no idea the circumstances surrounding these
>>lawsuits.  If it *is* just a material defect complaint / lawsuit, then
>>yes, I agree with you 100%.  But if medical injury is involved, thats a
>>whole 'nother story.
>>
>>The Captain
>>
>>
>>   > TCML,
>>   >
>>   > T&R Electric is out of the business of selling to Tesla
>>   > coilers because of
>>   > a complaint and threat of lawsuit by a hobbyist. They won't
>>   > even sell to
>>   > kVA Effects anymore even with our insurance, corporate status
>>   > and time in
>>   > the business.
>>   >
>>   > This is the same story as Condenser Products a while ago.
>>   > They sold TC
>>   > parts, TCML bought 'em, someone threatened a lawsuit (you
>>   > know who you are:
>>   > I do!) and now they won't sell to Tesla coilers.
>>   >
>>   > Moral: You makes your sparks you takes your chances. Be a
>>   > grown-up and keep
>>   > your complaints and lawsuits to my vendors to yourself! This
>>   > is EXACTLY the
>>   > reason that we do not disclose any of our vendors to the
>>   > hobby community
>>   > nor provide specific help or advice on building coils.
>>   >
>>   > Jeff
>>   > p.s. Ed Wingate predicted five years ago that the supply of
>>   > certain parts
>>   > (pole pigs, etc.) would evaporate once someone got hurt or started
>>to
>>   > complain. I am sorry to say that his predictions (injury, complaint,
>>   > lawsuit, etc.) are coming true. This is the downside of the
>>   > TCML; newbie
>>   > fubar...
>>   >
>>   >
>>   > Jeff W. Parisse
>>   > Director, kVA Effects
>>   > <http://www.teslacoil-dot-com/>www.teslacoil-dot-com
>>   > 310-748-5893
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >
>>   >
>
>
>