Re: Tesla's large pancake coil (and Myth Busters)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Original poster: "BRIAN FOLEY" <ka1bbg@xxxxxxxxxxx>

Hi, Jeff Behary of www.electrotherapymuseum.com/ has several pancake coils
and has made several as well. lots of good reading about pancake coils at
his site. cul brian f.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Tesla's large pancake coil (and Myth Busters)


> Original poster: Mddeming@xxxxxxx
>
> Original poster: William Beaty <billb@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Tesla list wrote:
>
>  > Many of the cover illustrations for "Popular Science" and
>  > "Popular Electronics" up to the 1960's were of devices that never
>  > became reality.
>  >      In general, if some illustration seems too amazing or too
>  > dangerous to make sense, it PROBABLY isn't real. A lot of amazing
>  > science is much more amazing than science.
>
> Heh.  There's really no need to use biased language make the drawing seem
> questionable.  It's already questionable! It's a drawing!  No doubt the
> drawing contains many details which differ from a photograph made of the
> same event.
>
> Now here's some science, as opposed attempted
Floccinaucinihilipilification*
>
>     QUESTION:  If we actually build a large pancake-style TC secondary,
and
>     mount a sphere terminal on the end of a central rod, then does the
>     discharge tend to occupy a fairly narrow cone which is directed
>     outwards from the pancake coil?     Yes or no.
>
> If nobody has experimentally determined the answer by building and
> operating such a pancake-shaped secondary, then we have no business
> pretending that we know the answer.
>
> If we want to adopt a scientific attitude, then we're not supposed to
> choose sides or to leap to unwarrented beliefs, instead we should remain
> tenative in the face of the unknown, and as Faraday said, "Let the
> experiment be made."
>
> I was hoping that the experiment ALREADY was "made" by someone here, so
> they'd give an answer.
>
>
>
>
> * Ever hear of "Floccinaucinihilipilification?"  It's a symptom of
>     anti-science thinking, and is a common tactic in law and politics.  It
>     essentially means "Using rhetorical distortions to make something seem
>     worthless."  It's common in non-science discussion.  Just use some
>     derogatory language to describe your opponents' views.  And of course
>     use glowing terms to describe your own.  The language of scientists
>     seems odd in comparison, since ideally it lacks such distortions, so
>     both the pro and con sides are treated equally.   For more, see:
>
>     The clinical attitude
>     http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/courses/inflogic/clinical.htm
>
> (See Below:)
>
>
>
>  > In a message dated 9/28/06 2:28:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>  > tesla@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
>  > Original poster: William Beaty <billb@xxxxxxxxxx>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > I stumbled across this newspaper illustration on Tesla Mem. Society
site:
>  >
>  >     A Demonstration Made at Tesla's Laboratory Yesterday
>  >     http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/teslaarticle2.jpg
>  >
>  >
>  > Odd that the discharge goes *away* from the coil.   The coil's EM field
>  > must sculpt the discharge path, no?
>  >
>  >
>  > This appears to be the same device which hung in Wardencliffe:
>  >
>  >     Wardenclyffe: exhibition of various inventions
>  >     http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/labpic.jpg
>  >
>  >
>  > In these other famous photos, the sphere-electrode is not installed:
>  >
>  >     http://www.teslasociety.com/posters/teslalab.jpg
>  >
>  >     http://www.teslasociety.com/pictures/teslapic.jpg
>  >
>  >
>  > Here's another artist's conception, again showing the discharge going
away
>  > from the coil.   I wonder if the discharge path was so reliable that
Tesla
>  > could actually sit as shown below?  Or is it just an "artist's
>  > conception?"
>  >
>  >     http://homepage.ntlworld.com/forgottenfutures/tesla/tesla_4.gif
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > (((((((((((((((((( ( (  (   (  (O)  )   )  ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
>  > William J. Beaty                      SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
>  > billb at amasci com                    http://amasci.com
>  > EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
>  > Seattle, WA  425-222-5066    unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
>
> In a message dated 9/30/06 8:17:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> tesla@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
> Original poster: <davep@xxxxxxxx>
>
> My recollection is that 'pancake' coils are shown in
> photos taken at Colorado Springs lab.  I did not recheck...
>
> As to 'science':
>    I suggest: Not all experiments need be done.
>
> A little thought will provide examples...
>
> best
>    dwp
>
>
> Hi Dave, Bill, All,
>
>      Dave, you're quite right. Experiments to verify something
> seemingly contradictory to the existing body of verified knowledge is
> probably (note I said probably) not the best way for most people to
> spend their resources. The number of possible experiments is
> infinite, the available resources are very finite.
>      When I said earlier that unverifiable illustrations concerning
> an undeniable  genius inventor/showman, known to be given to enhanced
> pictures and increasing hyperbole with age were PROBABLY inaccurate
> that was healthy skepticism, not bias.  Just this evening on "Myth
> busters"  (Discovery Channel) they duplicated Tesla's "earthquake
> machine" and tried it on a full size abandoned steel bridge as well
> as an accurate 1/6 scale model of Tesla's lab. Their frequency
> stability and control were a hundred times finer than what Tesla
> could have achieved. While they did get a stronger resonance than
> they expected, it was still several orders of magnitude less than
> what Tesla claimed for his experiments. (YRMV)
>      They seem to have the resources AND the inclination to carry out
> experiments on dubious claims. Perhaps they could be interested in an
> "All-Tesla" program.
>
> A Logical Aside:
>
> If person A is a Total Skeptic "I give credence only those things
> that have been verified and properly reviewed and duplicated" and
> If person B is a Total Credulist "I accept as plausible everything
> that has not been positively disproved."
> As time --> infinity, A's final conclusions must be the same as B's
> final conclusions.
>
> So Logically, there will be complete agreement and harmony on TCML at
> the end of time
> ( i.e. When Hell freezes over)  ;^)))
>
>
> A key element of "Floccinaucinihilipilification?" is to accuse those
> with whom you disagree or take personal umbrage, of anti-scientific bias.
>
> Matt D
>
>
>
>