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Re: [TCML] Terry filters



I have bought into the idea that chokes are not the answer for protecting nst's based on the evidence that you (Gary) and others on the list have produced. I don't agree, however, with your claim that a series inductor does nothing to from a low pass filter. In my old car stereo days, I used chokes on woofers to keep the high frequencies out of the speaker. Admittedly, when I listened to the woofer with and without a choke, a choke alone didn't just drop the high frequency right out of the sound that the speaker was fed. According to my old Fosgate manuals, a choke on it's own would attenuate the signal at 6 db per octave. The bigger the choke, the lower the frequency the attenuation would begin. This means that if the speaker were 8 ohms, and your choke was stated to be 100hz for a 8 ohm woofer, it simply meant that it would present more than 8 ohms to the amplifier at 100 hz and up, and increase the impedance by 2x's (I think) with each doubling of frequency. If you wanted 12db per octave, a capacitor of a specific value would be placed on the downstream side of the choke, to the negative feed of the speaker. If one wanted 18db per octave, a second choke would be placed in series, down stream of the first choke. When I thought that chokes were necessary for Tesla coil building, a ferrite core car stereo woofer choke was exactly what I used on the high voltage side of the transformer! Naturally, to find a capacitor so large and of sufficient voltage to use the car stereo formula was impractical, so I just used the choke mounted directly on the hv bushing. Your chokes looked like a good design and your testing is convincing that chokes are not helpful. Unwanted capacitance I believe is the culprit in making chokes bad. I have found the effects of unwanted capacitance working in A/V. As our video signals are becoming higher and higher, cables have to become shorter. That tiny bit of capacitance in coax can kill the signal when the cables are too long!

Dave Goodfellow

----- Original Message ----- From: "Lau, Gary" <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx>
To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2007 12:51 AM
Subject: RE: [TCML] Terry filters


I'm sorry Dr, but anecdotal evidence like this is going to set us back to using leeches and bloodletting.

No one has ever performed a study on failure rates, ON EQUIVALENT HARDWARE, comparing R-C filters and L or L-R filter networks. But there is overwhelming theoretical and simulation-based evidence that show that R-C filters are the superior topology.

Adding just a series inductor with or without a series resistor does nothing to form a low pass filter. You need a capacitor; this is elementary circuit analysis. On what basis do you conclude that this would "catch especially the very nasty high freq transients "?

I maintain that the use of chokes in NST/PT/pig protection networks should be abandoned.

Regards, Gary Lau
MA, USA



-----Original Message-----
From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
Subject: Re: [TCML] Terry filters

If you are really on a tight budget using used NSTs and can't afford a
full Terry filter, there is an alternative.

For almost 20 years I used a simple pair of air core RF choke made of 2"
ID x 12 inch long PVC tube.  I wound it for 10 inches with #26 AWG PVC
covered wire.  It seemed to catch especially the very nasty high freq
transients that could break down the NSTs HV coils as these transients can
form a "spider-web" like effect, essentially "crawling" over the windings
until they connect and then the main power flows causes failure.

Using a pair of these simple air core chokes I had only one failure in
nearly 30 years.  Some of these coils with NSTs and these simple chokes
are still in daily operation at museums for over 15 years.

The failure I had was also a used NST so that could have entered into the
factor --- the xmfr might have been ready for a failure from prior neon
service.

Food for thought anyway.

Dr. Resonance

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