Re: 3 Coil System Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil winding...with movies...(fwd)

["Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:37:54 -0500
From: resonance <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 3 Coil System      Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil
    winding...with movies...(fwd)


They just need the potential to produce high energy X-rays.  Only 1 mA at 1 
MEV was their tube requirement.


Dr. Resonance
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:09 AM
Subject: Re: 3 Coil System Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil 
winding...with movies...(fwd)


>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:23:12 +0000
> From: David Rieben <drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: drieben@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: 3 Coil System      Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake 
> Coil
>    winding...with movies...(fwd)
>
> Hi Dr, all,
>
> I'm gonna have to show my ignorance here and ask - why only
> 1 mA? 1 MV is certainly an impressive potential to attain in this
> scenario but with a 150 kVA power draw, a 1 MV output at on-
> ly 1 mA denotes a mere 0.66 % effeciency. What am I missing?
>
> David Rieben
>
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> From: "Tesla list" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
>> Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:22:07 -0500
>> From: resonance
>> To: Tesla list
>> Subject: Re: 3 Coil System Was: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil
>> winding...with movies...(fwd)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> David Sloan (Stanford) achieved 1,000,000 Volts at 1 mA output from a 
>> simple
>> water cooled 1 inch dia copper pipe wound into a spiral with only 18 
>> turns
>> on sec. The lower end was tapped at 2.2 turns and fed directly with a 
>> pair
>> of 15 kV vacuum tubes in CW mode. Power level was 150 kVA. It was in a
>> vacuum tank --- X-ray work for GE. Resonant rise due to Q factor
>> multiplication.
>>
>> Dr. Resonance
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi Dave,
>> >
>> > Most magnifier systems are of the classic design with an L1:L2 driver
>> > situated a great distance from L3 and coupled via transmission line. L3
>> > is a standalone unit both in mutual inductance and the coil capacity
>> > itself with it's topload and ground. Those are completely different
>> > beast and follow different design rules which don't apply to this 
>> > topic.
>> >
>> > Very few have built 3 coil systems of helical design as my hybrid 
>> > maggy.
>> > A few of course have with flat coils, but I'd bet in nearly every case,
>> > it was similar to your coil in design where the solenoid resonance was
>> > determined by the L1 and L2 with L3 observed only as a capacity. Trying
>> > to get all three resonant through trial and error would be nearly
>> > impossible and a program would certainly be needed. Trial and error is
>> > very easy with a 2 coil system but not with a 3 coil system as we are
>> > discussing.
>> >
>> > You mentioned that anyone could replace the 3rd coil .... with a pipe 
>> > of
>> > same dimensions and get the same results. That is true only if:
>> > 1) the 3rd coil is a close proximity coil as L1 and L2 are.
>> > 2) L1:L2:L3 are not designed to resonance.
>> > 3) L1 and L2 are resonant and L3 is seen as a capacity (which it is 
>> > when
>> > 2 above is not true).
>> >
>> > But, if L1:L2:L3 "are" designed to resonance, the game changes,
>> > especially in a system with a flat secondary and helical solenoid.
>> >
>> > What would be really interesting is a high coupling 3 coil maggy in
>> > close proximity all using flat coils! Now that, we can model (unlike
>> > that cone topload object which is a real pain in the butt).
>> >
>> > Take care,
>> > Bart
>> >
>> > Tesla list wrote:
>> >
>> >>---------- Forwarded message ---------- 
>> >>Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:12:37 -0500
>> >>From: David Thomson
>> >>To: 'Tesla list'
>> >>Subject: RE: A photographic tutorial of Pancake Coil winding...with
>> >> movies...(fwd)
>> >>
>> >>Hi Bart,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>>Bart just pointed out that the metal pipe you are using acts like a
>> >>>>waveguide, or third coil.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Just the opposite. A third coil not in resonance acts more
>> >>>like a capacitively coupled topload object and the dimensions
>> >>>of the coil. The third coil is pretty much a pipe at that
>> >>>point. In Jeff's case, it's nothing more than a topload
>> >>>object. In your coil, the solenoid is acting like Jeff's pipe
>> >>>(just a topload object).
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>It may be an opposite perspective, but it is the same thing, either 
>> >>way.
>> >>
>> >>A third coil has no inductive coupling with the secondary and acts like 
>> >>a
>> >>Helmholtz resonator.
>> >>
>> >>If my understanding is correct, anybody can replace the third coil on
>> >>their
>> >>magnifier with a copper tube of the same dimensions and get the same
>> >>results.
>> >>
>> >>Dave
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>