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Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:15:15 -0500
From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
Ah, well, when I was talking about the remaining ion trails, I was
talking about the static gap. But yes, you're right about them not
playing much of a role in the rotary gap.
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 23:01 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:28:04 -0700
> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I wasn't referring to the static gap. Just the basic mechanics of
> charging gap and main gap.
>
> Take care,
> Bart
>
> Tesla list wrote:
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 23:38:19 -0500
> > From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> > Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >
> > The static gap is not part of the main rotary gap, and it is not
> > designed to act as the main gap. It will be essentially unquenched and
> > will not be close enough to the rotary gap for the air currents to
> > affect it. The principle of the static gap in this case applies only to
> > DC coils with a reservoir cap, and not AC coils.
> >
> > On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:26 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
> >
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 21:51:34 -0700
> >> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >>
> >> I understand what your after there, but how will that affect the firing
> >> of the main gap? All in all, your going to find a speed of disc that
> >> will seem to work well. It's going to balance between the two gaps. I
> >> don't think "ion trails" are going to play much of a role (the spinning
> >> RSG has a way of preventing that). But, I think this will actually be a
> >> positive for you.
> >>
> >> There is also the approach of using two sets of rotating electrodes
> >> (large electrodes = large dwell = increased charge time per dwell, and
> >> small charging stationary electrodes for increased gap width of those
> >> electrodes), and then standard main gap electrodes (which would help
> >> quenching issues with increased bps). You could massively increase the
> >> number of charging electrodes in this fashion which I would expect to be
> >> on the outer portion of the disc with the main gap electrodes say 1/2"
> >> inward edge to edge (because there's more area for electrodes [for
> >> charging]).
> >>
> >> I'm just musing those ideas now that I've got a grasp on what your doing
> >> and what Steve has done (it's easy being an arm-chair cowboy!). I know
> >> you've already got it built. So go with that and let us know if it
> >> reacts. It does open up an interesting approach to switching of charging
> >> and firing energy.
> >>
> >> Take care,
> >> Bart
> >>
> >> Tesla list wrote:
> >>
> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 22:47:07 -0500
> >>> From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >>>
> >>> The point is that I WANT the remaining ion trails, and air cooling would
> >>> remove them. The gap will be firing initially about 5 times a second.
> >>> I want this to happen at a relatively constant voltage. But, after each
> >>> primary firing, I want about 30 or so other firings to occur at around
> >>> 700Hz at lower voltages. Air cooling remove the ionized trails that
> >>> would aid in this.
> >>>
> >>> Chris B aka. Crispy
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 21:22 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:47:39 -0700
> >>>> From: Barton B. Anderson <bartb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >>>>
> >>>> Exactly right Chris, your first bang is your highest voltage arc across
> >>>> the gap. As the electrodes heat up, the arc voltage will decrease, but
> >>>> hopefully they will balance out on the high side. Thus, air cooling
> >>>> becomes important. RSG's have a natural air cooling mechanism. Static
> >>>> gaps require external cooling to achieve the same. But yes, any
> >>>> remaining ionized particles within the static gap will decrease the
> >>>> dielectric withholding voltage, and thus, reigniting the gap will happen
> >>>> at a lower voltage. Air cool the static gap to resolve this issue (I
> >>>> know, it's another motor on your watt limit). Just run a power cord from
> >>>> your neighboring dorm room!
> >>>>
> >>>> Take care,
> >>>> Bart
> >>>>
> >>>> Tesla list wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 18:06:42 -0500
> >>>>> From: Crispy <crispy@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My concern with a design based on the heating of electrodes is that,
> >>>>> when first turned on, the electrodes start off cool. Therefore, the gap
> >>>>> will initially fire at a higher voltage than after it heats up. Do
> >>>>> remnant ionized trails in static gaps have anything to do with increased
> >>>>> propensity to fire, or am I completely lost?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Chris B aka. Crispy
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 16:31 -0600, Tesla list wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:24 -0500
> >>>>>> From: David Dean <deano@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> To: Tesla list <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Double Throw Spark Gap (fwd)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wednesday 10 October 2007 08:46:06 pm you wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On yet another unrelated note,
> >>>>>>> Does anyone have any feedback on my initial proposition of seriesing a
> >>>>>>> static gap in the charging circuit to pulse power?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Perhaps a less than optimum static gap design would be the order of the day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I see a static gap with one electrode sharp and pointed and the other
> >>>>>> electrode flat. A T.I.G. electrode and a tungsten disk. You need to observe
> >>>>>> polarity as some rectification will occur.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The point heats up lowering the firing voltage of the static gap allowing the
> >>>>>> ARSG to drain the storage cap further. When the gap goes out it stars to
> >>>>>> cool raising the firing voltage while the storage cap is recharged.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The trick would be to get just the right angle and degree of sharpness so the
> >>>>>> heating cooling cycle will just track the storage cap charge cycle.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just a thought.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> later
> >>>>>> deano
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
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