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Re: [TCML] Secondary Coil Wire



bartb wrote:

Hi Rob,

I think two wires side by side has been done before. The limitation is the number of turns you can put on the coil as you've probably looked at.

The form is fine. I've used both thick and thin without problems.

As far as programs, Javatc is absolutely the most accurate program. Teslamap is a neat program as far as a nicely formatted calculator and doesn't have the layout limitations that we have with Javatc (html/javascript). But from an accuracy standpoint, Teslamap is several years behind the times. Old Javatc 9.1 and the late John Coutures JHCTES program were both run exactly like this in the early days of programs for TC use (forced to using top load error percentages, etc.). Both of those were spin offs of Ed Sonderman's spreadsheet. Javatc has always set the bar high. Teslamap is still using old methods, but they do get you in the ballpark. There is a problem in Teslamap with the secondary capacitance (way off). But, just a calculation error I suspect. The other numbers are fine I guess without nitpicking too much. The top load is the big problem in Teslamap. Teslamap can't predict the effects of external capacitance (including the topload). The best it can do is calc the isolated C and allow an error value which you can input. I checked a coil with Teslamap just now and it required a 30% reduction to get close to the actual measured value. This is no surprise. I remember being forced into the same limitation years ago in Javatc.

Javatc has stood on the shoulders of giants. Thanks to the TSSP and Paul Nicholson specifically, Javatc does account for most of these situations and many others not even attempted by other programs. There's no reason that Teslamap couldn't do the same (but Kevin would need to do some major updates, and that is a daunting task). Doing these programs is far more difficult than creating a spreadsheet calculator.

Javatc is simply my way of giving back to the community of coil builders. No profits or anything of that nature. I am by no means dogging Teslamap, so please don't misinterpret. Teslamap is fine for a general Tesla Coil calculator and has the best format I've seen. But when a question is raised about accuracy, Javatc wins hands down because it has always "kept up" with the knowledge base of Tesla Coil physics.

Javatc input data is designed for "no limitations". Thus, you can experiment freely with various spacing ratios, h/d's, geometries, or whatever (and you will be handed more information than you will know what to do with). That is of my own doing. Most of the outputs are of my own choosing and the things I look at in a coil design. Javatc is actually written specifically for "me". I chose to make it available for all. I have always maintained this attitude with Javatc. Imagine if you wrote a spreadsheet for your own TC calculations. Same kind of thing, except I put it up on the web for others to use also.

Best regards,
Bart



Robert Davies wrote:

What do you all think of using two wires side by side like say a red and green 20ga soldered with silver solder at the ends but rolled up the coil together as one?

If you haven't guessed I have acquired my secondary form. I have several pieces of 12" 10" and 8" sch 40/80 pvc water main/sewer pipe , yea a little heavy on the sch but the price is right "Free".The 12" is the blue type, I would guess that color doesn't matter?

I have also been using the available TC design packages such as JAVATC and TeslaMap. Is one any better than the other or should I use both and and split the difference between them? I have noticed some different numbers each produces with the same input parameters.

Rob
KI4HXT

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Thank you so much for the input Bart that was exactly what I was looking for, I have dabbled in some coding myself and I know what an undertaking it can thus I rely upon people more skilled than I for that task.Thank you again for that!! I figured I wasn't breaking any new ground but I hadn't run across any post about it yet. I would also like to say and give props to all here for making this mailing list such a great place. I have been involved with other lists and all too many times they get corrupt with members bashing each other for various reasons or elitist behavior from the more knowledgeable members when newcomers ask questions that have been asked a million times before, I have seen none of that here and you can't believe what a breath of fresh air it is.

I hope Scot didn't think I was picking on him about the pole pig thread but coming from a law enforcement background and seeing it first hand I know how quickly things can go south for someone even if there was no intention of wrong doing. I would hate to see someone get in trouble over a none intentional mistake. I do apologize if it was not presented in the sincerest concern manner it was intended.

Thank you all,
Rob

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