Re: [TCML] Stranded/silver plated wire (was Scientific Method)

[DC Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

We used a Pearson current transformer and Tek storage o-scope.  No black
magic here, and no guessing, just solid lab work.  Results were highly
quantitative, not just observing "brighter sparks", also this was evident as
well.

It was PVC 3 kV MIL-D spec wire vs. 200 degree C double build magnet wire.
Adjustments were made to try our best to keep everything "even" when the
testing was done.

Dr. Resonance




On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx> wrote:

> I'd be really curious to hear how you determined that the peak current was
> higher using the stranded wire.  What method of instrumentation?  Or were
> you just relying upon a visual recollection that the sparks seemed brighter,
> and inferred that peak(?) currents were different?  If the two coils were
> swapped into the same PSU/primary/cap/topload, the time delay between runs,
> the likelihood of coupling differences, topload and tuning differences, make
> such a subjective comparison less than compelling.
>
> What type of insulation does the stranded wire have?  I would imagine
> Teflon or PVC?  It seems dimensionally impossible that one could have two
> coils, one wound with magnet wire, the other with a far more
> thickly-insulated stranded wire, that would have the same dimensions, same
> wire gauge, and same number of turns.
>
> Gary Lau
> MA, USA
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > Behalf Of DC Cox
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 7:57 PM
> > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [TCML] Stranded/silver plated wire (was Scientific Method)
> >
> > Someone asked the question about 10 years ago, and I provided an answer.
> > Another person raised the question this week and I again gave this
> different
> > person --- the exact same answer.
> >
> >
> > The silveer tinned stranded wire has provided superior peak current in
> the
> > sec coil.
> >
> > I've built magnet wire coils and silver-tinned stranded coils and the
> > stranded, silver tinned coils, always develop more current in the sec
> coil.
> > These are near identical coils, same number of turns, same wire guage,
> and
> > same coilform type (fiberglass) that I used in my testing approx 25 years
> > ago. I can't explain exactly why but it does produce increased sec
> current
> > and hence slightly brighter sparks.
> >
> > As I recall Bill Wysock also used this type of wire and can probably also
> > confirm the superior performance.
> >
> > Dr. Resonance
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Lau, Gary <Gary.Lau@xxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > Are you saying that you use silver-plated STRANDED wire for
> secondaries?
> > >  Granted, AC resistance and Q are far less important on the secondary
> side,
> > > but the notion of this wire being superior to common magnet wire is
> > > incorrect.  Stranded wire is inherently more lossy at RF frequencies.
>  This
> > > is because the skin effect causes current to travel on the outer
> surface of
> > > the bundle.  If a strand on the outside of the bundle weaves to the
> interior
> > > of the bundle, the current in that strand will try to find its way back
> to
> > > the surface, and this means traveling to adjacent conductors, through
> any
> > > resistive oxide layers between them.  This strand-hopping results in a
> much
> > > higher AC resistance than if a single conductor were used.  This is the
> > > reason that Litz wire insulates the strands from one another.
> > >
> > > I am NOT suggesting that stranded wire is unsuitable for use in
> > > secondaries, since secondary Q is not extremely important.  Clearly it
> works
> > > OK.  Just that it's incorrect to suggest that the wire you use is
> somehow
> > > superior, beyond aesthetics.  And honestly, I'm no longer even sure if
> you
> > > DID suggest that it was superior.
> > >
> > > As to your legal constraints, I would, putting on my moderator hat,
> insist
> > > that you not drop any further references and teases to things that you
> are
> > > unable to speak freely about.  You must realize that dropping such
> > > unverifiable claims calls into question your credibility.
> > >
> > > Regards, Gary Lau
> > > MA, USA
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
> > > > Behalf Of DC Cox
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:42 AM
> > > > To: Tesla Coil Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [TCML] Scientific Method
> > > >
> > > > Anyone attend Tesla Fest 2009 can see the 1 Hy inductors for
> themselves.
> > >  We
> > > > use them in our Marx generators, and will have a 600 kV unit in
> > > operation.
> > > >
> > > > They  can also see a few of our large coils in operation with silver
> > > tinned
> > > > wire, fine stranded.
> > > >
> > > > As for the large coil down south, I've already clearly stated my
> reasons
> > > for
> > > > not showing photos of it (like getting sued).  My legal contract with
> my
> > > > client protects his desire to remain annonomous, and I will respect
> that
> > > > agreement which I signed.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Resonance
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Tesla mailing list
> > > Tesla@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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