[TCML] WG: DC Cox

["Fritz W. Egli" <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear List,

 

I relate this story to you reluctantly, in the hope that it prevents some of
you from making the same mistake I did.  As it directly relates to the
practical construction of Tesla coils, I trust it passes moderation
scrutiny.

 

Earlier this year I contacted Mr. DC Cox, asking if he could provide a Tesla
coil secondary suitable for use with a 15kV/120mA power supply, and ship it
to me.  I live in Switzerland.  Communication with Mr. Cox was poor when I
requested confirmation on the coil specifications, but we finally agreed
upon a configuration and a price - USD $920, delivered.  When I received the
completed coil, it was poorly manufactured - ends not squarely cut, gaps
between turns, portions of the windings were loose on the Sonotube form,
badly and inconsistently applied coating.  As the Sonotube ends contained
holes, it appeared that there were once end-caps, but none were supplied
(nor promised), so it appears this was manufactured for someone else,
perhaps rejected.  But most significantly, the coil was supposed to have
been wound with #24 wire, and the coil delivered was wound with #18 wire.
The lower inductance of the delivered coil, due to the thicker wire, could
not work in my application.

 

I contacted Mr. Cox and politely detailed the problems.  He insisted the
fault was with the carrier and that I must file a shipping damage claim(!),
but finally agreed on refunding my payment when threatened with TCML List
banishment.  But the refund never arrived.

 

Below is the email dialog between Mr. Cox and myself, starting at the
bottom, most recent at the top.  I'll let you draw your own conclusions as
to whether you would do business with this individual.  As I understand it,
Mr. Cox is no longer subscribed to the List.

 

Sincerely,  Fritz W. Egli

 

============================================================================
===========

 

Von: Fritz W. Egli [mailto:fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Montag, 19. April 2011 09:07

An: 'resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx'

Cc: 'Chip Atkinson'

Betreff:

 

Dear Mr. Cox

 

You don't seem to grasp or acknowledge the underlying point that I have

attempted to communicate on so many occasions:

 

The coil was wound with the wrong wire gauge.

The coil was wound with the wrong wire gauge.

Do I need to repeat myself more?

 

My point about the gaps was secondary to the wire gauge problem and you must

have misunderstood me.  I was not suggesting that there was a break (gap) in

the wire - there was not.  Of course that would have been detected in

testing.  I was saying that the windings were not uniformly laid down

side-by-side; there were lateral spaces (gaps) between some of the adjacent

turns.  I fully agree that this is a cosmetic issue and would not

significantly affect operation or testing of the coil.  But it is hardly

professional or commercial quality, and is below acceptable workmanship

standards, even amongst the TCML hobbyist community.

To repeat yet again, the wire was not broken and there was no damage during

shipping.  I cannot and will not file a damage claim against the carrier.

The carrier is not to blame and attempting to shift the blame and liability

to anyone else is dishonest and a further waste of time.

 

Kindly take responsibility for your own mistakes.

 

And refund the sum of $ 920.- I payed you as you confirmed before :

>?I will forward the funds as soon as you answer my question ?

(Your questions answered repeatedly)

>?I will not be able to make the payment until I receive some museum funds

in which will not occur until  around Apr 10th ...

 (April 10. is gone!)

>? I've already informed Chip it will be sent out on/around May 10th as I am

presentlly waiting on a deposit inbound on a project ... (April 10. Or May

10 ??)

>?... But, I will pay him just to shut him up.  I will not be able to make

the payment until I receive some museum funds in which will not occur until

 around Apr 10th ...?

Ok Mr. Cox, do so. April 10. was 9 days ago !

Regards,  F.W.Egli

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Montag, 18. April 2011 18:26

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: coil cost

It was NOT wound with any gaps in it.  It would have been impossible to test

in this condition.  This coil was tested ( operated) prior to shipment.  It

worked fine as it had NO GAPS in it.

It is obvious there was shipping damage if it arrived with any "gaps" in it,

because we didn't ship it with any gaps in it.

You can still file a shipment damage claim, but if you wait any longer they

will reject your right to file a claim.

Once this issue has been resolved we can wind you a 24 AWG coil.

D. Cox

 

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Samstag, 16. April 2011 22:33

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: coil cost

For the 3rd, and last time, what is the original cost of the coil?

If you don't advise soon I will just assume it was $500.

I will forward the funds as soon as you answer my question.

No, I will not cover shipping because you failed to file a damage claim as I

advised you to do a long time ago.

D.C. Cox

On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 1:16 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Mr. Cox

First let me express that I am not eager to reply to rude letters.

In my understanding of culture a letter is to be started with a salutary

address and it is terminated with a final salutation .-

Our attorney will inform you in the next days of the sum that will be

enforced by legal action. Right now it  is only $ 920.-  Be assured that it

will be considerably more if  the matter will take its course.

Sincerely yours, F.W.Egli

?... But, I will pay him just to shut him up.  I will not be able to make

the payment until I receive some museum funds in which will not occur until

 around Apr 10th ...?

 

 

Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 22:13:22 -0600

From: DC Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: Forwarded mail....

As I told you, I do not expect my museum deposit in until May 7-8th.  I

thought you understood this.

D.C. Cox

 

 

From: Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx>

Date: Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:29 PM

Subject: [Teslamod] Forwarded mail....

To: resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Cc: teslamod@xxxxxxxxxx, fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

DC,

Our April 8th deadline and your own April 10th deadline has come and gone

without Fritz getting a refund.

I am taking you off the tesla coil mailing list because of your refusal to

refund Fritz' money for shipping him a coil that was not what you

specified.

Chip Atkinson

List Owner, Moderation team member.

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. April 2011 03:39

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re:

 

You didn't pay $920 for this coil.

 

What is the amount you paid for the coil --- minus shipping?

 

D.C. Cox

 

 

Von: Fritz W. Egli [mailto:fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Montag, 11. April 2011 09:07

An: 'resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx'

Cc: 'Chip Atkinson'; 'glau1024@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'

Betreff:

 

Dear Mr. Cox

 

---You where requested by the list moderators to refund the sum of $ 920.- I

payed you in advance for a inacceptable quality and technically not

corresponding to agreed and confirmed specifications coil you sent me  -  to

avoid sanctions,   till 8.4.2011

 

---You confirmed to refund this sum, to fresh up your memory, below your

mail :

 

?... But, I will pay him just to shut him up.  I will not be able to make

the payment until I receive some museum funds in which will not occur until

 around Apr 10th ...?

 

---It is 11.4. your payment did not come in. It is now up to the list

moderators ? list owners to proceed.

 

---In addition I advise you that I pass the case to a lawyer for further

processing.

 

Regards, F.W.Egli

 

 

Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 05:30:09 -0600

From: DC Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: Fritz Egli's secondary coil problem. (fwd)

I've already informed Chip it will be sent out on/around May 10th as I am

presentlly waiting on a deposit inbound on a project.

This is based on the solid premise the moderators don't try to suspend me or

anything of the sort.  I agreed to deal with this problem but if they get

further involved and muck this up then I will rescend my offer.  They made

the deadline without any consultation with me at all ---- they could have at

least asked me but failed to do so.

D. Cox

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Samstag, 9. April 2011 13:20

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: Fritz Egli's secondary coil problem. (fwd)

 

How much was the basic cost of the coil without shipping expenses?

D.C. Cox

 

 

On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Mr. Cox

I got informed that you confirmed to Mr. C.Atkinson to refund the sum I

payed you.

I got informed that you cannot recall how much I payed you ? This was US $

920.-

I got informed that your deadline to refund the sum I payed is 8. April .

I got informed that you requested my postal address, I don?t see the reason,

as you don?t have to ship me anything ... And it was passed to you many

times in our mail traffic ... However here you have it again:

<deleted>

Switzerland

I think, what you need to knew most urgently is my bank account data:

<deleted>

Regards,

F.W.Egli

 

 

On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, DC Cox wrote:

It seemed he was complaining even before we shipped it.  He sounds like a

"perfect perfectionist" and certainly not anyone I will do any business with

in the future.  He was screaming at us right after he received it --- and

not calmly and rationally following my instructions to file a claim.  I know

many freight companies will only allow 90 days to file a claim --- after

that time period has passed you are on your own.  I doubt Fritz ever did

file a claim, though I could be wrong.

D. Cox

 

 

Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 23:56:24 -0600

From: DC Cox <resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

To: Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx>

Subject: Re: Fritz Egli's secondary coil problem.

 

The FAULT  is not that of the customer ---- or ours.

 

The coil was tested and in fine working shape when Todd shipped it.  It

apppears the cold winter weather may have shrunk the tube in shipping.

 

If he has a problem he needs to immediately file a claim with the

shipper---- they will either reimburse Fritz or us.  I told him to do

this months

ago.

 

This is standard procedure in handling any damage claims.

 

And no, I never try to rip anyone off.  I was very surprised to hear you say

that.

 

When I arrive back my shop from AZ I will just wind him up another one at no

cost.  All he has to do is pay shipping which should not be a problem, if,

in fact, he did file a claim with the shipper.

 

I'm going to wind and coat it myself ---- I'm not going to let my employees

do it.  And we will ship it only during summer months so shrinkage is not a

problem.  This isn't the first time we had a sonotube shrink a bit in cold

weather.

 

All claims ALWAYS have to be done on the receiving end ---- I can't file it

on the transmitting end.

 

Regards,

 

DC

 

 

On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Chip Atkinson <chip@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 

Hi DC,

Recently we the moderation team of the TCML were contacted by Fritz

Egli about a tesla coil secondary that you sold him.  He reported to us

that he was extremely dissatisfied with the product and your responses

when he contacted you about the problem.  Having reviewed the product

pictures and correspondence between the two of you that Fritz sent

us, we believe that his complaints are well founded.

- The coil is not functionally acceptable - because of the wire used, it

  cannot be used.

- The fault is not that of the customer.

 

- It is pointless to suggest returning the coil for rework.  The wrong

wire must be removed and cannot be reused, and the replacement cost

of the Sonotube is far less than the cost of shipping.

 

- Two satisfactory resolutions exist. Fritz alone should be given the

choice of either a full refund of all product and shipping/packing costs

paid to date, or of a newly manufactured, professionally-constructed

secondary coil, with agreed-upon specifications prior to construction,

delivered for no additional cost to Fritz.

 

TCML list memebership is free and you have been able to derive benefit

from this membership by advertising your products on my list.  I will not

allow members of my list to take advantage of the list or other members.

In order to remain a list member, I want you to contact Fritz and rectify

his problems in the manners suggested above such that he is satisfied

by the end of April 8th, 2011.

Thank you in advance.

 

Chip Atkinson

TCML owner, co-moderator.

 

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. März 2011 23:09

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

 

The loose turns were probably caused by drqmqtic temperature changes during

shipment.

 

We wind all of our coils on sealed cardboard tubes ---- up to 24" dia.

sonotubes as they are called --- with no performance problems whatsoever.

 

We don't do refunds as we have no way to recapture our labor costs.

 

On any warranty work we would rewind the coil, but as it sounds you are more

that a bit "picky" then I will have to supervise it directly when I return

home to my shop in early June.

 

D.C. Cox

 

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:16 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Mr. Cox

 No Sir, I don?t regard this as a reasonable solution, I pay $920.- and do

then the whole job myselve ??!?  What for then the payment of $ 950.- ?...

 May I suggest that you refund the money I payed and this coil is at your

disposition, can be sent back if you pay packing, transport.

 Or:

 You build a new coil in quality you can be pride of, closewound, tight on

coilform, not on a twisted carbord coilform, protective spray evenly

applied, no tears running down, not sprayed on greasily wire that the acryl

peels off and with the correct specifications for the 15/120 NST feed, as I

requested.

This I would consider as a gentlemens fair resolution.

 Possibly you where not aware of the state, condition of that coil, however

the deal was between you and me not with the person that handled it for you.

 Kind regards, Fritz W. Egli

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. März 2011 09:51

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

 

If you have the wire and a lathe perhaps you could just re-wrap it in your

shop can then use our coatong on it 4-5 layerws.

It only takes 4-5 hrs to do, then one cat a day x 4-5 days on rhe hv

insulation.

 

D.C.. Cox

 

 

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:10 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thank you Mr. Cox for your promte reply.

 

I don?t consider it a good solution to ship this coil back,

Considering the material value $ 310.-

and the shipping cost $ 610.-

Pls. revert.

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 22. März 2011 01:29

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

Send it back --- we offer full repair or replacement on any of our

malchines.

D.C. Cox

 

 

Von: Fritz W. Egli [mailto:fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Montag, 21. März 2011 23:07

An: 'DC Cox'

Betreff: AW: secondary coil purchase

 

Dear Mr. Cox

 

I have unpacked the secondary coil you have sent, wanted to start work on

it.

This secondary coil you sent for sFr. 920.- shipping included, is in a

absolutely inacceptable condition.

This coil looks as if a newbie had wound it by hand without a jig. Several

sections of the winding are loose on the coilform. Between some turns there

are gaps, aprox. a third of the wire diameter.

The acryl varnish is in some areas run down in drops, in some areas there is

almost no coating, in other areas the coating is bubbling up, can be peeled

off.

The coilform is cardboard, rough painted.

The coilform ends are not cut perpendicular, if not corrected the coil looks

as the inclined tower of Pisa ?

You confirmed that the wire is AWG 24, but the wire is AWG 18.

You confirmed that the coil has 1140 turns, but the coil has 985 turns.

You confirmed that this coil is in perfect new condition .-

 

I kindly ask you to response, to revert.

Thank you, Fritz W. Egli

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 1. Februar 2011 04:31

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: coil shipped

Coil shipped today UPS for $486.

Please wire me $186.  UPS tracking 1Z580X466767705618.

D.C. Cox

 

 

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Freitag, 7. Januar 2011 01:13

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

 

I had a friend check and here is the critical data.

 

coilform:  50"

winding length:  47"

1,140 turns # 24 AWG double build.

Money to be wired to Western Union, Dells Fast Cash., 151 Wisconsin Dells

Parkway South

Wisconsin Dells, WI  53959www.dellsfastcash.com

Boxing and shipment within the next 2-3 weeks.

 

D.C. Cox

 

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thank you Mr. Cox, I apreciate it if you insert the answers. I like to move

forward, when all clear, answers received, bank instructions received,  to

wire you the money, that you can send off materials as soon as possible.

Thanks again, kind regards,

Fritz W. Egli

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Januar 2011 02:26

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betr

eff: Re: secondary coil purchase

wiill check  it over closer  It's in my shop in Wis.   I'm in Tucson, AZ

DC

On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 8:24 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Coi winding lenth is 54"

4 coats Dolph's AC-43

New condition ---- no damage

The coil:

Basicly OK, pls. Give or confirm the following informations:

 --Coil form diameter: 8?/203mm ???

--Coil form length:   ???

--Winding length: 54?/1372mm  or 52?/1321mm  ???

--Aspect: 6,75  or  6,5  ??? a bit strange ??

--Wire:24AWG, double built ???

--Number of turns: ???

--Coated with Dolphs AC 43:   4 coats ???

--Internal baffles, to prevent internal arcing  ???

--End caps:   ???

--Condition:New ???

--Save packing guaranteed ??? (rough handling at transport?)

--Cost of 30caps, with bleeder resistors CD  924C20P15K  :   $130.-

--Way of shipping:  UPS   ???

--When can it be shipped, date:  ???

--Your complete bank data, for wire transfer  ???

--Send invoice pls. answer questions (marked yellow) , then I wire money.

Kind regards,  Fritz W. Egli

 

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Januar 2011 07:59

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

Coil w/ shippping is $920.00

Coil is 8 " x  52" closewound with #24 AWG double build wire.

Wound do fire transfer via Western Union.

DC

Funds transfer via Western Union.

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 2:48 PM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ok, thank you Mr. Cox, I waite for your complete informations.

Fritz W. Egli

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Januar 2011 20:54

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

I will check ---- may also have a larger dia sec..check with me in 3

days.

DC

On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Dear Mr. Cox

Price is OK,  but is 4? diameter not a bit small for 15/120 NST feed?

Aspect 7,5 (4? core diametre ? 30? winding length) a bit strange ?? Would a

aspect of 4 ? 5 not be better? Pls. give tech details (Wire type? Number of

turns? Coated w. Dolphs? Endcaps? Isolator discs inside core bonded? Etc. )

Thank you for complete information

Fritz W. Egli

Von: DC Cox [mailto:resonance@xxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Januar 2011 07:02

An: fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Betreff: Re: secondary coil purchase

I have one in stock   4" x 30".

Would guess coil with at $750.00

DC

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Fritz W. Egli <fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

Von: Fritz W. Egli [mailto:fritz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Gesendet: Samstag, 1. Januar 2011 17:57

An: 'DC Cox'

Betreff: secondary coil purchase

Dear Mr. Cox

What size secondary coil (diameter, length) and wire specs.  do you

recommend for a tesla system with 15/120 NST feed ?

Can you supply two such sec. coils (high quality multi coated, with end

caps) ?

Price and shipping to Switzerland ?

Kind regards and best wishes for 2011

Fritz W. Egli

_______________________________________________
Tesla mailing list
Tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pupman.com/mailman/listinfo/tesla