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RE: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
Tim,
You have left out the toroid data, so the frequency calculated is without a
toroid fitted. So you need to add your toroid data firstly.
You have then left out your primary cap size, so the program gives you a
frequency of zero. So add the cap size in as well.
Go here http://www.classictesla.com/java/javatc/javatc.html and use the
latest online version.
On the top line, far right, click "Load sample Coil". This will fill in all
the boxes with the input data coming from measurements of an old coil that
Bart built once.
Then go through and change the parts that apply to you. The second section
down for 'Ground Plane' etc, you can leave the existing for now.
Then post the result back here again
Regards
Phil Tuck
www.hvtesla.com
-----Original Message-----
From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Tim Flood
Sent: 19 June 2013 16:27
To: 'Tesla Coil Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
Phil,
After double checking everything, below is my most recent JavaTC output
file. These numbers are based on a 6.0" diameter secondary. This is the
worst scenario yet, with a Primary Resonant Frequency of 0 KHz. What in the
world did I do now?
I look forward to you comments.
Thanks,
Tim
J A V A T C version 12.2 - CONSOLIDATED OUTPUT
Wednesday, June 19, 2013 11:19:56 AM
Units = Inches
Ambient Temp = 68°F
----------------------------------------------------
Surrounding Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
25 = Ground Plane Radius
25 = Wall Radius
16 = Ceiling Height
----------------------------------------------------
Secondary Coil Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
Current Profile = G.PROFILE_BARE
3 = Radius 1
3 = Radius 2
24 = Height 1
56.4 = Height 2
1200 = Turns
22 = Wire Awg
----------------------------------------------------
Primary Coil Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
4.5 = Radius 1
15.4 = Radius 2
23.5 = Height 1
23.5 = Height 2
17 = Turns
0.25 = Wire Diameter
0 = Primary Cap (uF)
20 = Total Lead Length
0.25 = Lead Diameter
----------------------------------------------------
Top Load Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
Secondary Outputs:
----------------------------------------------------
242.48 kHz = Secondary Resonant Frequency
90 deg° = Angle of Secondary
32.4 inch = Length of Winding
37 inch = Turns Per Unit
0.00165 inch = Space Between Turns (edge to edge)
1885 ft = Length of Wire
5.4:1 = H/D Aspect Ratio
30.1807 Ohms = DC Resistance
43387 Ohms = Reactance at Resonance
3.67 lbs = Weight of Wire
28.478 mH = Les-Effective Series Inductance
34.24 mH = Lee-Equivalent Energy Inductance
37.379 mH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
15.128 pF = Ces-Effective Shunt Capacitance
12.582 pF = Cee-Equivalent Energy Capacitance
31.752 pF = Cdc-Low Frequency Capacitance
5.79 mils = Skin Depth
0 pF = Topload Effective Capacitance
165.0037 Ohms = Effective AC Resistance
263 = Q
----------------------------------------------------
Primary Outputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 kHz = Primary Resonant Frequency
100 % high = Percent Detuned
0 deg° = Angle of Primary
88.57 ft = Length of Wire
14.7 mOhms = DC Resistance
0.391 inch = Average spacing between turns (edge to edge)
1.443 inch = Proximity between coils
0 inch = Recommended minimum proximity between coils
142.224 µH = Ldc-Low Frequency Inductance
0.00302 µF = Cap size needed with Primary L (reference)
0.51 µH = Lead Length Inductance
251.842 µH = Lm-Mutual Inductance
0.109 k = Coupling Coefficient
0.135 k = Recommended Coupling Coefficient
0 = Number of half cycles for energy transfer at K
0 µs = Time for total energy transfer (ideal quench time)
----------------------------------------------------
Transformer Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 [volts] = Transformer Rated Input Voltage
0 [volts] = Transformer Rated Output Voltage
0 [mA] = Transformer Rated Output Current
0 [Hz] = Mains Frequency
0 [volts] = Transformer Applied Voltage
0 [amps] = Transformer Ballast Current
0 [ohms] = Measured Primary Resistance
0 [ohms] = Measured Secondary Resistance
----------------------------------------------------
Transformer Outputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 [volt*amps] = Rated Transformer VA
0 [ohms] = Transformer Impedence
0 [rms volts] = Effective Output Voltage
0 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Primary Current
0 [rms amps] = Effective Transformer Secondary Current
0 [volt*amps] = Effective Input VA
0 [uF] = Resonant Cap Size
0 [uF] = Static gap LTR Cap Size
0 [uF] = SRSG LTR Cap Size
0 [uF] = Power Factor Cap Size
0 [peak volts] = Voltage Across Cap
0 [peak volts] = Recommended Cap Voltage Rating
0 [joules] = Primary Cap Energy
0 [peak amps] = Primary Instantaneous Current
0 [inch] = Spark Length (JF equation using Resonance Research Corp. factors)
0 [peak amps] = Sec Base Current
----------------------------------------------------
Rotary Spark Gap Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 = Number of Stationary Gaps
0 = Number of Rotating Electrodes
0 [rpm] = Disc RPM
0 = Rotating Electrode Diameter
0 = Stationary Electrode Diameter
0 = Rotating Path Diameter
----------------------------------------------------
Rotary Spark Gap Outputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 = Presentations Per Revolution
0 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
0 [mph] = Rotational Speed
0 [ms] = RSG Firing Rate
0 [ms] = Time for Capacitor to Fully Charge
0 = Time Constant at Gap Conduction
0 [µs] = Electrode Mechanical Dwell Time
0 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
0 [peak volts] = Effective Cap Voltage
0 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
0 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
0 [power] = Energy Across Gap
0 [inch] = RSG Spark Length (using energy equation)
----------------------------------------------------
Static Spark Gap Inputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 = Number of Electrodes
0 [inch] = Electrode Diameter
0 [inch] = Total Gap Spacing
----------------------------------------------------
Static Spark Gap Outputs:
----------------------------------------------------
0 [inch] = Gap Spacing Between Each Electrode
0 [peak volts] = Charging Voltage
0 [peak volts] = Arc Voltage
0 [volts] = Voltage Gradient at Electrode
0 [volts/inch] = Arc Voltage per unit
0 [%] = Percent Cp Charged When Gap Fires
0 [ms] = Time To Arc Voltage
0 [BPS] = Breaks Per Second
0 [joules] = Effective Cap Energy
0 [peak volts] = Terminal Voltage
0 [power] = Energy Across Gap
0 [inch] = Static Gap Spark Length (using energy equation)
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Phil Tuck" <phil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 1:11 PM
To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
> Tim,
> A secondary giving 82khz implies an 8 or 10 inch diameter, but a primary
> that is wound to fit around a secondary that size, would I imagine have a
> lower freq than 164 kHz, unless of course you're using very few turns.
> Check the dimensions that you entered and what JavaTC gives you, and post
> the JavaTC output file (use the "Format Design as text" button, then
> select
> and copy, and paste into your email.)
>
> Phil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of Tim Flood
> Sent: 18 June 2013 14:47
> To: 'Tesla Coil Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
>
> Thanks Phil,
>
> The numbers from my first try on Java didn't look right. The calculated
> primary resonant frequency was 82.81 KHz and the secondary was 164.75 KHz.
> The HV power supply will be a 14,400v PT.
>
> I'm not sure how I got so far off, but will modify some of the main
> parameters. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
>
> Keep in mind you will be trying to explain things to a Mech. Eng.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Tim Flood
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Phil Tuck" <phil@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, June 17, 2013 4:18 PM
> To: "'Tesla Coil Mailing List'" <tesla@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
>
>> Tim,
>> You want the primary frequency a little under the secondary frequency,
>> maybe
>> 3 to 4 % on a small coil. The reason is the streamers on the toroid have
>> capacitance and when the streamers form, they drop the secondary
>> frequency
>> down a little bit. So by tuning the primary low to start with, they
>> should
>> hopefully end up both about the same.
>>
>> Regards
>> Phil Tuck
>>
>> www.hvtesla.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx [mailto:tesla-bounces@xxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tim Flood
>> Sent: 17 June 2013 18:54
>> To: tesla@xxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [TCML] Primary/Sec. Frequency
>>
>> Is there a proper relationship between the primary output frequency and
>> the
>> secondary output frequency? I did check the archives, with no luck.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> Tim
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Tesla mailing list
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>
> _______________________________________________
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